Brainzaps: A Journal of Effexor Withdrawal

Look. I am not necessarily anti-Effexor or anti-prescription drugs. I just don't think ads for those things are appropriate for these pages. I've been filtering sites like a madwoman in my Google ad settings, yet new batches keep cropping up--don't want to take Effexor? Take Valium! How about some diazepam? How about a whole crop of drugs with lots of D's and Z's and P's and and T's in the names?

I know ads are automatically served to the site based on its content and the repetition of certain keywords, so if I stopped using some of these words entirely, maybe these types of ads would be replaced by other types of ads. But if I have a huge long list of pharmacy/prescription drug URLs in my list of filtered sites, wouldn't SOMEONE or whatever technology they're using to determine which ads are placed here get the idea that I don't want those types of ads?

I love you, Google, don't get me wrong, and I've been hearing a lot of stuff on the news about you lately about how smart and lucrative you are, but you've just been letting me down. You're still my favorite search engine, but I expect more from you, you know?

Well. I can imagine some readers might be thinking that Effexor withdrawal should be the least of my worries, since addressing entire blog entries to a search engine, which is admittedly an inanimate object of sorts, is clearly symptomatic of far deeper problems...

When I drink too much coffee, the withdrawal stuff is worse.

In other news, I am holdin' it down at about 1/2 a dose of 37.5mg.

I see my psych doc tomorrow and will fill her in on all the drama that's ensued since last time, and may even tell her about this blog. I think she's one of the Good Guys, just underinformed.

Hope everyone is hanging in there.

Well, no crazy outbursts today, thank goodness.

I responded to this in the comments earlier today, but I wanted to thank again the people who have offered support and reassurance. It's nice to know there are others out there who have been through the same thing, offering knowing sympathy and advice. It means a lot.

I've been a bit more careful about my caffeine intake. Also, I started taking Rescue Remedy (which is a popular type of Bach's Flower Remedies) again when I feel an anxiety attack coming on, which I think is helpful.

You'll notice I'm being kind of an ad-whore and have put an Amazon ad for this stuff on the right. But I really have been using it, and it really has been helping--so if you feel like supporting this site, and you want to try something very natural, gentle and uninvasive for dealing with anxiety and extra stress, it's definitely a good click-through option for both of us.

Anyway, thanks again for the encouragement, and I hope anyone else who might be out there reading this right now, all zappy-headed, dizzy, and miserable, is hanging in there.

As for me, I'm doing so-so today. I'm okay right now mood-wise, but I feel nauseous and cranky unless I have something in my stomach. I had a particularly destructive, crazy mood swing this morning that came out of nowhere. I was feeling okay this morning, and then driving home around 1:00pm, I started feeling very tense and anxious and agitated. When I got home I felt progressively more and more agitated, depressed, and angry, hit a crying jag, felt like hurting myself, and ended up putting four holes (small ones) in the bedroom wall. I felt like I was going totally out of control and called 911.

By the time someone answered, I felt really stupid for having called 911 and asked tearily, "Is there some kind of hotline you can transfer me to?" They transferred me to the city police department voice mail, for the love of god, so it's a good thing I wasn't completely suicidal. I hung up and went online, still feeling like a total weirdo but really scared that I would get worse and worse if I didn't talk to someone, and found a suicide hotline (1-800-SUICIDE--hopefully you'll never need it). I called and got someone right away, and even though I was really embarassed, it helped a lot. You're not required to give your name, and they don't ask you for any contact information. The girl who I spoke with just told me to take a deep breath and cry as much as I needed to. I said I didn't really think I'd try to kill myself, but that I was scared I was going to hurt myself. I didn't say this earlier here, but I'd also banged my head against a wall a bunch of times and scraped my wrist with a scissors. I'm really embarassed writing this even now. But I think writing it out here helps, and I also want to know--is this me? Is this a side effect of the withdrawal? Because I don't think it's me. I've had this problem before, but I really don't think it's just me--it has to be some wacko reaction going on inside my brain, because I can't accept that it's me!

Anyway, the call really helped calm me down, which I knew is what I needed--I couldn't get ahold of my husband, and I didn't feel comfortable calling any other friends or family. I'm just too embarassed to call any of my friends all wacked out like that, and I know if I called my mom she would get too worried, and somehow it might even exacerbate things. So talking to someone anonymous and neutral was good. I wish I'd done it in the past. I'm crying right now while I'm writing because I feel so embarassed and stupid and frustrated about this--I don't even know if I can foist it on the Effexor. And I hope it doesn't mean I have to go back on the AD's. I think I'm just too sensitive to them, or something. I know they work really well for some people, but I had these attacks WHILE I was on 300mg/day of Effexor--and a lot more frequently, too. I don't want to go back to being foggy-headed and lethargic and forgetful and confused.

I do feel a lot better now, not great, but much more calm. I have stuff to do, so I'm done here for today.

I'll be doing a little re-structuring and re-organizing of the blog over the next couple of days to make it easier to navigate and find helpful information. It might look a little wacky in the meantime--consider yourself warned.

Seriously though, I've realized that there's a good chunk of info here about withdrawal and things that have helped individual sufferers, so I want to make it easier to find and identify that info.

As an aside--I notice that a lot of the Google ads that show up here are FOR Effexor, like from online pharmacies and stuff, and I'm doing my best to get rid of those. I'm not necessarily anti-Effexor in general, or against online pharmacies, but I think having those ads on here is a conflict of interest. I can change this little by little by modifying the URL-filter settings in my Google ad account. You can help me with this--Google generates ads automatically, targeted in part to certain geographic locations, so you may be seeing different ads than the ones I see. If you see ads for a pharmacy or something related, post a comment with the URL so I can consider filtering it.

Drug/psychopharmacology information on Effexor and other antidepressants

Drug information - including side effects, etc., on Venlafaxine (Effexor) from Counselingresource.com
http://counsellingresourc e.com/medications/drug-page s/venlafaxine.html" title="http://counsellingresourc e.com/medications/drug-page s/venlafaxine.html" target="_blank"http://counsellingresourc e.co...

Manufacturer's official Effexor website
http://www.effexor.com" title="http://www.effexor.com" target="_blank"http://www.effexor.com

Letter on Venlafaxine-Associated Hepatitis from the Annals of Internal Medicine
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/130/ 11/944-b" title="http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/130/ 11/944-b" target="_blank"http://www.annals.org/cgi/con...

Letter #2 on venlafaxine and hepatitis, also from the Annals of Internal Medicine
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/132/ 5/417-a" title="http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/132/ 5/417-a" target="_blank"http://www.annals.org/cgi/con...

Effexor is an SNRI - find out more about this type of antidepressant
(link coming soon)

General health and wellness

Health and Equity in the Americas: a cool online health journal published by Harvard University
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/" title="http://www.fas.harvard.edu/" target="_blank"http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~drclas/publications/revi sta/health/

First off--you may have noticed something different. Yes, there are now ads (for me--not just the tBlog ones) on the site. I decided to take advantage of affiliate programs offered by companies I am okay with--i.e., Google and Amazon--to help with the time and work I put into maintaing the site. I'm also considering paying for tBlog's "premium" service to add more features to the site, so I'd need to defray those costs somehow. This won't change the content, aside from starting to include more recommendations of books and magazines (with links to Amazon of course) that are relevant to the topic at hand.

Anyway, I hope that doesn't turn anyone off or discourage you from coming here--I'll try to keep it as unintrusive as possible.

Today was OK. Now that I've shifted down a dosage--and I agree with you, regular commentator SBdivemaster (whoever you may be! :) ) about not doing it every other day--I need to figure out what time of day works for me again. I felt OK this morning, but by midday I was feeling truly icky again, dizzy and headachy, and even though I took a small dose as soon as I started feeling bad, I had to cut short some work this afternoon because I just felt too crappy. When I start feeling like that, it gets really hard and painful to move my head from side to side or look anywhere but straight ahead, because I feel like I just got off a carnival ride.

As the evening progressed, I started to feel better, but still had some headache pain and felt like I needed to avoid any stress or sudden movements.

Speaking of needing to avoid stress--not getting enough sleep is a type of stress, and one I'm unnecessarily imposing on myself right now, so good night!

P.S. Someone mentioned Bonine as an over-the-counter drug to help with nausea and dizziness. I'm going to look into that and report my findings here, but in the meantime, has anyone else had any experience with it?

I'm having a dizzy, dizzy day...

Ugh. I had to cancel two appointments today. This part is not fun. Yesterday was a no-dose day, and by the middle of the day today I felt so lightheaded and quavery and dizzy by mid-day that I took an Effexor hours before I had planned. I'm out of the 37.5g capsules so I opened up a 150mg one, divided it into 4ths, and put each little pile of beads into one of my health food store vegi-caps (empty capsules). I think it would be easier to take about 19g/day instead of 37.5 every other day, so I'm trying to figure out what 19g of beads looks like. I realized that 1 bead does not equal one gram because they all seem to vary in size.

More meditations on capsules. beads. grams. ugh. later.

No zippy commentary or helpful web resources today, just me documenting what's going on with me. I bit the bullet and went down to my final level of titration (or at least what the doctor has recommended to me), 37.5 every other day. So last night I didn't take any Effexor, but today I did.

Today was OK, although I did have a little faint nausea, lightheadedness, dizziness, etc. Towards the end of the day I started feeling worse, got into a MEAN bad mood and acted really snotty to some poor guy at Blockbuster. I felt intensely sensitive to sounds and light--any sharp noise gave me those zappy electric current feelings in the top of my head.

I took my 37.5 around 9:15PM, and feel much better. Still a little dizzy, but much more calm and less spacy and headachey.

Anyway, I will keep going. I think I'm going to follow some of the suggestions and divide my remaining pills down into about 18-20g doses. I bought some of those empty capsules at the health food store for that purpose.

Just a question--um...has anyone out there noticed at what point the sexual side effects start going away? I've noticed things have improved a lot in general since starting the tapering process, but it's still not the same as pre-Effexor. Would this side effect still be...affecting someone even at a low dose?

That's all for today. I'm up way too late. Thanks for all the "hang in there"'s and words of encouragement--it really helps.

Hang in there out there in Effexor withdrawal land. (Gratuitous Google bait--haven't put any out there in awhile.)

I feel crappy today. I'm still at 37.5. I'm scared to lower the dose further until my period is over. I have a really bad temper right now. I just didn't want my blog languishing away with no activity. That's all for today.

Today's link of the day has been brought to you by helpful commenter SBDivemaster and the letter N. Thanks for the link!

It's from the website AntidepressantsFacts.com and offers what appears to be some pretty sound info on tapering, including tapering by intervals less than the capsule amount by drinking capsule beads mixed with orange juice.

Like you should with everything out there on this crazy ol' Internet (including this blog), use your critical thinking skills, and when in doubt, check with a doctor you trust.

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/taper.htm" title="http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/taper.htm" target="_blank"http://www.antidepressantsfac...

I'm feeling better today, and I have a little scolding speech prepared...

OK, I'm kidding, not really a scolding, of course. I'm just concerned because I've seen a couple of people commenting--hell, people all over the Internet--refer to quitting Effexor cold turkey and then, of course, feeling AWFUL.

Please, DON'T GO OFF EFFEXOR COLD TURKEY! This practically guarantees intensified withdrawal symptoms for some people.

If you've already quit, please consider talking to your doctor and/or please consider going back on a low dose and then tapering off gradually.

I've been on 5 different SSRI's (not simultaneously!), 1 mood stabilizer, and Strattera (which is prescribed for ADD), and titration (tapering gradually up or down to reach a certain dose, or lack of dose, over the course of a period of time) is indicated for ALL of them. Many prescription drugs are just not meant to be stopped cold turkey. I can certainly empathize with just wanting a drug out of you, especially you feel it hasn't helped you or that it's actually made you feel worse. This is how I often feel. My husband has actually suggested that I do this because of some of the more negative reactions I've had to this med (mostly at much higher doses). But discontinuing suddenly subjects your system to needless stress.

There are excellent suggestions here (on the blog, in the links, in the comments) for gentle and gradual tapering. If your doctor is clueless about withdrawal, you may have to educate him or her somewhat--which might be a daunting task, especially if you're in the throes of withdrawal. If your doctor is uncooperative, refuses to believe you about your symptoms, or refuses to help you get the dosages you need to taper down properly, find another doctor.

If all else fails, there's a lot you can do for yourself. Taking a good multivitamin--especially one with a good B complex--and evening primrose oil capsules religiously throughout my tapering process has been, for me, essential to getting through it with minimum discomfort. Try to avoid stressful situations as much as you can. Get plenty of sleep and drink lots of water. Open up the capsules and taper down bead by bead (taking out one or a few a day) if necessary.

Whew. I'll get off my soapbox now.

As for me, after the first two rough days, I'm holding steady at 37.5. Woo hoo!! I've been feeling pretty good, just really tired and sleepy. I don't know if that's from the lower dose, or just not getting enough sleep. Der. I changed my dose from daytime/morning to right before bed, which actually works better for me, I think. If I wake up feeling crappy it just starts the whole day off bad, whereas if I start to feel crappy around bedtime, I know I can just take my (slowly but surely decreasing) dose, put on my pyjamas, zonk out, and wake up a new woman.

Well, hang in there, everybody.

Yesterday and today I've gone down to 37.5...feeling very moody and angry. It's NOT the original depression, OK? It's this stupid med. I'm feeling very weepy and destructive, and a little dizzy.

I probably need to taper more slowly...I'll probably go a little back up to 37.5 and half a 75mg capsule.

GRrrrr.

Just edited to add--and I am EXHAUSTED! All I want to do is sleep. This morning I went to take a short nap, which is very uncharacteristic for me, and I slept from around 11:30AM to 2:30PM.

Hangin' in there, though, trying not to be too hard on myself.

I found this post on Dr. Bob's Psychobabble boards (poster's name and email address removed here):

"Re: Effexor withdrawal - my approach

Posted... on November 26, 2003, at 17:56:44

I was taking Effexor XR 112.5 each day for about a year. My approach to reducing with minimized agony was SLOW.

1. Reduce no more than 37.5 each time and stay at any new level for 2 weeks.
2. Or alternate 112.5 and 75 every other day for a week or two and then go to 75.
3. Then stay at 75 for a week or two.
4. Then reduce to 37.5 for two weeks (again alternating 75 and 37.5 if necessary)
5. Then go to health food store and buy a bag of empty gel caps (they are cheap).
6. Put one half of the 37.5 in one gel cap and one half in the other.
7. Then reduce to 18.75 (approx) for two weeks.
8. Then alternate 18.75 one day and nothing the next day for two weeks.
9. Then either stop or alternate one day on and two days off for awhile.

Seems like a long process, but the staggering really helped me.

The reason I stopped taking Effexor was that I felt much better and the higher levels of Effexor just made me want to sleep/nap all the time, although I must say it really really helped with anxiety and depression together.

Good luck. I personally think it is/was a good drug for me, but it is definately hard to tape off without discomfort."

To remove beads from capsules, I found it helpful to hold the capsule upright, with the "top" half (the wider part of the capsule that seems to overlap down over the narrower half) up. I remove that by very gently and carefully turning it, sort of as though unscrewing it, until it becomes easier to tug upwards and remove from the bottom half of the capsule. If you tug on it too hard, when the top comes off, the beads will fly out and get all over the place.

While doing this, I hold the capsule over a small cup or just the cap of the medicine bottle turned upside down to catch any beads that fall out. You can remove beads one or a few at a time by using a tweezers, a toothpick (to nudge them out), or even just by shaking them out gently.

I've never removed all of the beads and then divided them, but I imagine that shaking them out into a shallow bowl or some other type of shallow, flat-bottomed container would make it easier to divide/count them.

Hope this helps; if anyone has other recommendations, you can submit them as a comment and I'll repost it here for easier viewing.

There's been an unusual flurry of comments the past couple of days, including some great suggestions from (non-tblogger) SBDivemaster. (Thanks for posting them!) I'll post them here for easier reading, some stuff in brackets added for clarity:

"The next titration down [from 37.5], I opened the capsules, divided the "beads" into thirds. I took approxiamately 25mg (2/3 of all the beads in a 37.5 capsule) a day for the next 3 weeks. The withdrawal was fairly mild and only lasted 4 days or so.

Then I stepped down to 12.5 mg (1/3 of all the beads in a 37.5 capsule) for 3 weeks. I barely experienced any symptoms.

Today I feel fine, but I'm still expecting some kind of withdrawal from even this small dose.

Here are some tips that helped me:

1) Switch your dose time to immediately upon waking. If withdrawal symtoms get worst before dose time, why not let the symptoms happen while you are asleep?

2) Drink plenty of water!!

3) Keep yourself well fed. I know you may feel crummy, but if you keep eating, you will provide yourself nutrients to make you feel better, not worse. Try comfort foods like soup, mashed potatoes, hot cereal, etc.

4) Get plenty of sleep. It's when your body does most of it recovering.

5) Hang in there! You can get off Effexor XR."